Proposal to exchange the eth of the treasury to usdt

These things can be solved in only a week. It has been a long time since the replacement of eth. And everything needs your consent. As long as you don’t show up, things can’t be handled. I am just stating the facts, and I will not appear in this community from today on. I quit

In addition, about liquidity, it is definitely not appropriate to fully repurchase now, more detailed plans and are required in the future. However,
The current pool of token transactions is very very too small。
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This resulting in:

  1. People are afraid to trade, because any buying and selling will cause the price to fluctuate greatly;
  2. People dare not hold it, thinking that the price of the currency will be zero…;
    3,Therefore, it is reasonable to exchange 50 eth into Justice, then put the remaining 50 eth into the liquidity pool of uniswap. (Suggest new adding option instead of full repurchase option)。

It will brings several benefits:

  1. There will be more people willing to hold tokens;
    2, can increase people’s hope for the community;
  2. It can improve the community’s evaluation of the project and the Assange;
  3. Adding a liquidity pool will let treasury continue to earn fees, although not much, but it will be a good start.
  4. The most important point is that for a blockchain project, adding a pool is a very common behavior. Because, it is also a recognition of $Justice as a valuable asset. If the we don’t recognize the value of $Justice, how can we expect others to recognize it?

Recommended to remove the “Repurchasing all Justice” option and adjust it to the following options( Multiple choice mode maybe better):

  1. Continue to hold all ETH;
  2. Convert all ETH to USDC;
  3. Convert 50% of ETH to USDC;
  4. Exchange 50 Eth to $ Justice, then with 50 Eth to add liquidity pool;

Fifth option is great.

25% ETH. 50% USDC and 25% Justice?

Updated:

  1. Continue to hold all ETH;
  2. Convert all ETH to USDC;
  3. Convert 50% of ETH to USDC;
  4. Exchange 50 Eth to $ Justice, then with 50 Eth to add liquidity pool;
  5. 25% ETH. 50% USDC and 25% Justice;
  1. Continue to hold all ETH;
  2. Convert all ETH to USDC;
  3. Convert 50% of ETH to USDC;
  4. Exchange 50 Eth to $ Justice, then with 50 Eth to add liquidity pool;
  5. 25% ETH. 50% USDC and 25% Justice;

我感觉,50%eth单边加池子,相当于托底了,社区散户也会有些信心,外界也看到社区有动作

Prefer to see what the motivation for this proposal is. And the options given are rather mixed.
Until I get an answer I can only give my suggestions based on the motives I can think of.

*Assuming the motivation for this proposal is to reduce the loss relative to USDT from the volatility of the Treasury asset ETH.

  1. So does that mean we’ll be converting USDT back to ETH in the future as the value of ETH to USDT appreciates? This is critical because for this motive our focus will be on price volatility and we will do this repeatedly.
  2. How will the funds be spent after we convert ETH to USDT? We’re not sure how we’re going to spend those funds now, so if we determine what we need to spend when the value of the cryptocurrency rises against USD, does it run counter to that motivation to buy higher priced cryptocurrencies at that point?

*Assuming the motivation for the proposal is for us to have a relatively stable, low risk, low volatility cryptocurrency.

  1. In terms of coin issuance, all stable coins are not absolutely 0 risk. The first category of stable coins are anchored stable coins issued by centralized institutions with 1:1 collateral in fiat currency such as USDT, USDC. Firstly, there are risks from government regulation, in addition these stable coins are issued by private companies, and corporate actions are also potential risks. The second type of decentralized over-collateralized stable coin such as DAI, it is obtained by collateralizing ETH, the risk is that the value of ETH goes to zero. The third type of algorithmic stablecoin such as UST is not mature enough and has been very unstable. The risk of ETH issuance is obviously smaller than the above.
  2. Technically speaking ETH itself does not have and no risk, only the risk of price fluctuation, but this has nothing to do with technology. Stable coins, on the other hand, are technically more risky than ETH.
  3. In terms of volatility, the volatility of ETH/USD is influenced by policies and the international environment, but USD has a high volatility compared to other assets such as gold, oil, and other currencies. If we look at the safest cryptocurrency, ETH/BTC, we can see that the relative volatility is very small, with 13% volatility in a year, and in the long run the value of ETH is increasing relative to BTC, indicating that more people are increasing their holdings of ETH.
    微信图片_20220615192859

*Assuming the proposal is motivated by providing liquidity for JUSTICE/ETH, JUSTICE/USDT.

  1. First of all for this motive then the proposal options should not be intermixed with the options arising from the motive above.
  2. The treasury will have no money to do anything after using the money here, and now the situation is that we have no income, and even $JUSTICE have lost the right to issue. All companies and institutions are dead if they don’t have funds to make them work, so it is more important for the treasury to generate revenue than to provide liquidity, so that we can do these kinds of services with the revenue.
  3. If there is a problem regarding liquidity, it is more advisable for members to organize themselves to provide liquidity rather than truncate the start-up capital of DAO only.

So I do not recommend the treasury assets ETH in all kinds of other assets conversion, only to clear we need to spend when the relevant asset conversion operations. It is not recommended to use the Treasury’s current start-up funds for liquidity locking, and I hope that members will spontaneously organize to provide liquidity locking and put the Treasury funds to a really useful use.


更愿意看到这个提案的动机是什么。很显然给出的选项是比较杂乱的。

在得到答案前我只能根据我能想到的动机来给出我的建议:
*假设这个提案的动机是减少国库资产ETH/USDT交易对的波动性所带来的相对于USDT的损失。
1.那么是否意味着我们会在未来因为ETH兑换USDT升值时把USDT重新兑换成ETH?这一点很关键,因为出于这个动机我们的重点将会关注在价格的波动性上面,并为之反复操作。
2.我们把ETH换成USDT之后这些资金会怎样花费?我们现在并不确定后续会如何花费这些资金,那么如果在加密货币对USD的价值上涨时我们才确定需要花费的事情,那时候再去购买高价的加密货币是否与这种动机相违背?

*假设提案的动机是让我们拥有一个相对稳定,低风险,低波动率的加密货币。
1.从币的发行上来说,所有稳定币都不是绝对的0风险,稳定币第一类中心化机构用法币1:1抵押发行的锚定型稳定币如USDT,USDC首先存在政府监管带来的风险,另外这类稳定币由私人公司发行,公司行为也是潜在的风险。第二类去中心化的超额抵押型稳定币如DAI,他虽然是最稳定的稳定币,但是其波动率能达到10%,它由抵押ETH所得,风险在于ETH价值归零。第三类算法稳定币如UST其本身还不够成熟,已经非常不稳定。而ETH的发行风险很明显比上面的都小。
2.从技术上说ETH本身没有并没有风险,只有价格的波动风险,但这和技术无关。而稳定币则在技术上的风险大于ETH。
3.从波动性来说ETH/USD的波动性被政策和国际环境影响较大,但是USD相对于其他资产,如黄金,石油,他国货币也是有着很大的波动率。如果我们眼光放在最安全的加密货币ETH/BTC的交易对中可以看到相对波动率很小,一年波动率为13%,长期来看ETH相对BTC价值在升高,说明更多的人在增加持有ETH。

*假设提案的动机是为JUSTICE/ETH,JUSTICE/USDT提供流动性。
1.首先出于这个动机那么提案选项就不要和上面动机产生的选项相互参杂。
2.国库把钱用在这里以后就再没有钱去做任何事了,现在的情况是我们没有收入,连$JUSTICE都发行权都丢了。所有的公司和机构如果没有资金让它运转起来就是死,所以比起提供流动性更重要的是让国库产生收入,这样有了收入我们才能做这类服务性的事。
3.如果关于流动性出现了问题,更建议会员自发组织提供流动性,而不是截断仅有DAO的启动资金。

所以我不建议国库资产ETH在各类其他资产转换,只有到明确我们需要花费的时候再进行相关的资产转换操作。不建议用国库现在的启动资金来做流动性锁仓,希望会员自发组织提供流动性锁仓,把国库资金用到真正有用的地方。

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For the 2-5options - what is the cost of fees for each action. This should be factored in - as each action will further cost. And then as SShW points out - those kind of options start a cycle of constant conversion every time the market fluctuates and we get nervous (each time with exchange/transaction fees incurred for any change).

And as raised importantly by SShW - we have no revenue raising project in place to support the existing treasury. Would that be better to do then lock in this loss? What if there was a turnaround next month?

Treasury fund is currently worth - 243,633.50 USD

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Thank you very much for this detailed contribution. I agree the two should be separated and conversations about buybacks/liquidity pool should be addressed separately from reducing the dao treasury exposure to ETH fluctuations.

I think we can move forwardly relatively quickly without the contentious parts of this proposal.

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I would never hold tether, and I wouldn’t be surprised if the price of tether crashed further, because they have questionable business practices. I would also like to mention that people are supposed to “buy low sell high”, and this sale would instead be the opposite of that wisdom.

As found in the order, Tether held sufficient fiat reserves in its accounts to back USDT tether tokens in circulation for only 27.6% of the days in a 26-month sample time period from 2016 through 2018. The order also finds that, instead of holding all USDT token reserves in U.S. dollars as represented, Tether relied upon unregulated entities and certain third-parties to hold funds comprising the reserves; comingled reserve funds with Bitfinex’s operational and customer funds; and held reserves in non-fiat financial products. The order further finds that Tether and Bitfinex’s combined assets included funds held by third-parties, including at least 29 arrangements that were not documented through any agreement or contract, and that Tether transferred Tether reserve funds to Bitfinex, including when Bitfinex needed help responding to a “liquidity crisis.”

In addition, the order finds that Tether failed to complete routine, professional audits during the relevant time period. According to the order, Tether retained an accounting firm to perform a review of Tether reserves on a date Tether selected in advance, and Bitfinex transferred over $382 million to Tether’s bank account in advance of that review. The order recognizes that Tether has not completed an audit of the Tether reserves.

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As a market investment behavior buying low and selling high is what smart people do, but most people in the market choose to buy high and sell low because they blindly follow an emotion and shrink their vision very narrow, and that is why these people lose money. There is a two-eight law in the stock market that 20% of people make money and 80% of people lose money, which shows that most people do not choose wisely in the market.
Also it’s not a good idea to use treasury funds for this kind of thing, it goes against the purpose of our DAO and will make people laugh.


作为市场投资行为低买高卖是聪明人的做法,但是市场上大多数人都选择了高买低卖,因为他们盲从于一种情绪,把视野收缩得很窄,这就是为什么这些人赔钱。股市有个二八定律,即20%的人赚钱,80%的人赔钱,可见大多数人在市场中的选择并不明智。
另外如果用国库资金去做这类事的话不是一个好主意,这违背了我们DAO的宗旨,也会让人嘲笑。

This is not true, because if the market is “zero sum” game you can expect exactly 50% of investments to shrink and 50% of investments to grow, and but more importantly the market investments do realize some return so that the average investment will have a positive return, moreover since the action of trading reflects a persons utility preference, even if a zero sum game participants will trade for the assets that maximize their own personal preferences thereby being a positive sum game.

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As a long-term investment is often a positive-sum game, it provides the capital for the company to grow healthily and gains as the company grows.
But short term investment is often a zero-sum game, it arbitrage from the rise and fall of the stock price, which is actually a speculation, this does not help the company to grow. A zero-sum game also does not mean 50% of investments to shrink and 50% of investments to grow, it means that the winner’s money is provided by the loser. In the stock market the sellers get all the money provided by the buyers, in Texas Hold’em it is more obvious that the winners wins losers‘ money and the winners are always in the minority.

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https://archive.ph/fvnPm

@endomorphosis @SShW @rave @tao @Silke @GabrielShipton @Rick_Velvet
Thanks for discuss together, especially this situation. I personally try to supply some understanding:
感谢参与讨论,尤其是在这种比较特殊的时期。

About exchange to stablecoins:
it’s no doubt that treasury not suitable for too much frequent speculation, 6 days ago I suggested exchange to stablecoin is to achieve some value preservation purposes for the treasury based on the current market conditions.From the perspective of the market, we can never accurately determine when the price is high and low, which means that after the exchange is executed, for a long time in the future, if there is no special deterministic situation, these part is a fixed asset. A few days have passed and eth has lost nearly 30% again, who knows what the next few months will be?
关于兑换为稳定币:
6天之前,当我提出建议兑换为稳定币时,是为了让国库的资产在当前的行情下至少得保值。毫无疑问的时,国库不应该频繁的进行太过于投机性的交易操作,我们谁都无法预测市场价格的高低,但一旦把资产兑换为了稳定币,那么也就意味着在这个时间点一部分资产实现了保值。几天过去了,价格再次贬值了30%,谁又能确定未来几个月它会怎样呢?

About exchange to $Justice:
Later, someone suggested that the treasury should be exchange all $Justice. As Mr @GabrielShipton said, at present, this operation may be not suitable (the transaction volume and the pool is too small); Then, after read messages from discord channel & wechat, I realized that if we add some ETH (such as 50% of the total treasury) to the pool, it is reasonable for the entire community and the subsequent development for the community.
Here are a few key points:

  1. $Justice is also an asset. Like other tokens, we must recognize this. If we do not believe it、lack confidence in future development, the treasury not dare to own it, who will believe it?
  2. The current price and transaction volume are already very low, The treasury can buy more $Justice for a small price now. then in the future, when external expenditures are made, $Justice can also be used, for example incentives, purchases of other services or productsand, the expenditure must be piecemeal and multiple times, rather than a one-time sale.

关于兑换 $Justice:
后来有人建议国库应该全部换成$Justice。正如@GabrielShipton 先生所说,目前这个操作可能不适合(交易量和池子太小); 浏览了discord频道和微信的大家的讨论消息后,我意识到如果我们向池子中添加一些ETH(例如总国库的50%),对于整个社区以及社区的后续发展来说都是合理的。
这里有几个关键点:

  1. $正义币也是一种资产。像其他币一样,我们必须认识到这一点。如果我们不相信它,对未来的发展缺乏信心,国库自身都不敢拥有它,谁会相信它?
    2.目前的价格和成交量已经很低了,国库现在可以以很小的价格购买更多的$Justice。而将来需要支出时,比如奖励、购买其它服务或产品,是分批次、零碎的,而非一次性卖空。
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It is my belief that the initial dip was caused by the Federal Reserve bank changing interest rates, which caused all equity prices to fall, and the second dip was caused by numerous “stable coins” and “defi” projects becoming insolvent. I do not know what other shocks to the market we can expect, and I’m pretty sure that the federal reserve long term target interest rate of 3.5 percent is not going to change much more.

完全赞同拿50%的eth加池子,这有利于增强社区信心,也有利于外界对justice的信心,需要制定具体的操作执行细则,比如加池子的价位范围和相对应的数量,都需要明确。

Then what’s your suggestion?
I think the market will still face uncertainty while waiting for the Fed to lower rates.